Talk Summary

Do you have team members with diverse personalities? Do you think these differences in personalities lead to differences in job opportunities, career pathways, and growth? Come, Join Us as we discuss this in our Ethics 1st ᵀᴹ LinkedIn Live Talk by the DataEthics4All leadership team.

00:48  Shilpi: Hello everyone LinkedIn, Twitter, and YouTube, we are live, DataEthics4All live is back with one more episode of the Ethics 1st live talks where we bring bite-sized talks on Ethics 1st and what it means to be an Ethics 1st leader, what does it mean to bring ethics by design into the workforce,  into everything that you’re doing whether it is a product whether it’s service, whether you’re building a solution, whatever role you are in – what does it mean to be an Ethics 1st leader, and joining me today on this talk, a very interesting talk we have in store for you today and joining me are my fellow leaders from the  DataEthics4All leadership team and I’m going to quickly introduce each one of you and here’s Susanna, hi, Susanna you want to give a quick introduction?

01:46 Susanna: I am part of the leadership council awesome leadership counselor at Dataethics4all all and by my work definition I am a cognitive science AI ethics researcher, an artist, and a writer so I want to say all of that because today’s topic is about AI

 

02:04 Shilpi: Yes yes absolutely, Sam?

02:05  Sam: Good evening everyone, I’m also a part of the leadership council and leadership team,  I’m a teacher by profession I have a background in data management, data analytics as well and I’m really looking forward to learning about  how we can work together as introverts and extroverts  in a diverse environment

02:07  Shilpi: Yeah very interesting conversation today, Kevin you want to introduce yourself?

02:10 Kevin: Yeah hey everyone I’m Kevin Diaz, I’m also part of the leadership council, my professional background is in analytics in advertising, and maybe by that you can tell whether I’m an introvert or extrovert, my educational background is actually in mechanical engineering how about now?! [Laughter]

03:05  Shilpi: Well I’m now to stop that Kevin, so I mean being an engineer doesn’t mean that you are an introvert,  so I didn’t give a little bit of my background, but because it’s about you know team dynamics and our backgrounds as well as personalities and what role we should be choosing, 

Shilpi: I’ll say a little bit about myself as well,  so I have studied engineering believe it or not I’m an engineer did a master’s in design, visual communication and then practiced photographyas a professional photographer, did my first entrepreneur start-up as a professional photographer, videographer as well as a collage maker

Shilpi: and I did a lot of design consulting as a graphic designer, practiced 20 years of consulting as a marketer, worked as a marketer for big and small firms

Shilpi: I have taught at Stanford and Berkeley as a professional, adjunct instructor in Business and Marketing and then I have been a mentor to Nasdaq and the MIT 100k launch as well as a few other start-up accelerators all across the globe and then founder of DataEthics4All

Shilpi: and to have found you guys with the team! 

04:50 Susanna: Oh, we are having some trouble with LinkedIn, should we come back again or do you start?

04:53  Shilpi: It says [Music] it says we are Live but it’s giving me that we are having trouble streaming to LinkedIn this may be an issue on Linkedin’s end we’ll keep trying, please check LinkedIn to ensure the stream looks okay can one of us?

05:12  Shilpi: Yeah all right no worries we are doing this Live and if this doesn’t work then we will have the recording and we’ll upload the recording so we’ll keep going so there you have it just among us

Shilpi: the leadership council or leadership team at DataEthics4All, now DataEthics4All foundation, we have such diversity in you know our thought process where we come from our educational backgrounds our geographic locations, our ages, where we are to today in life you know there’s just so many we bring everything to the table

Shilpi: and that’s the fun discussion that we want to have today about how personality and diversity and personality play a role in the workforce and whether one personality is better than the other in terms of opportunities for career growth, so let’s jump right in this is very exciting, so let me start with the first very basic question, I think most people in the world understand that probably there are many more archetypes but

Shilpi: people understand that there are mainly two big buckets of types of people, one is the introverts and the other is the extroverts, and all the other 16 personality archetypes or whatever how many there may be, they’re always different types of Briggs Meyers whatever, that maybe they bring up very different types of archetypes but two big buckets  

Shilpi: What does each of them mean to you, Sam?

06:52  Sam: Yeah I think I’ve been looking at a lot of different resources over the past few hours and a few days and I think for me an extrovert is someone that is confident and approachable and open as well, to new things and I think I feel,  as I’ve reflected on obviously both types

Sam:  it also is about being you know comfortable in unusual situations or unknown situations and I think, yeah I think they’re the types of key kind of key characteristics I would associate with an extrovert

Sam: I don’t know about you guys and I’d say for an introvert it’s someone that is reflective, looks inwards for peace and guidance, and someone that is quite quiet, and maybe quite shy but again they’re the things that you think about when you look at you know yourself and other individuals, you know, so yeah I think they’re the two types of kind of descriptions I give for both yeah.

08:01  Shilpi: So okay thank you, Sam,  Susanna do you want to add to that?

08:08 Susanna: What does it mean to me personally, I’m, I without looking at you know all the documentation and all the research, talking about me

Susanna: personally it reminds me of the Auguste Rodin sculpture,  ‘The Thinker’,  if you have seen that, that’s what an introvert means to me, it’s like somebody who just sits by himself and is thinking, always lost in deep thought

 

08:35  Shilpi: That is by him right which one is the Stanford sculpture garden, yes? 

08:40  Susanna: Yeah yes that’s the one, that’s the most famous I think one of his most famous cultures, everyone knows he’s looking like this it’s not like. There are not 10 people around him standing around him or you know holding up their hands, you know hugging and taking a selfie or nothing of that sort, to me that’s the other end

Susanna: for me that is was introvert means somebody who’s more lost in deep thought and who likes to contribute at a deeper level, than just jumping in on everything so that’s what it means to me.

09:14  Shilpi: Okay so you just, you’re saying extroverts just jump in on everything,

09:19  Susanna: Yes totally

09:23  Shilpi: Okay, Kevin?

09:25 Kevin:  I actually, I love that analogy because I remember once telling someone you know about what made me choose analytics and like I just tell myself that analytics chose me, I think to myself that a synonym of analyze is overthinking,  oh, that’s what I like to do in my free time so obviously I’m going to do it between nine to five as well, and do it well, but yeah obviously overthink and analyze are applied in different contexts but at the very basic level they’re almost similar, and well if you ask me what’s the difference between an introvert and extrovert, an extrovert I would picture a party, an indoor party and you know-how like you have the center and you have the outsides like the walls

Kevin: I would say that the extroverts will be closer to the center and the introverts would be closer to the walls, that’s something that I can visualize when I think about the difference 

10:29  Shilpi: Yeah very nice,  like you all defined introverts and extra extroverts in your own very unique ways, and yeah very true,  I mean I don’t know if it is true or not but basically yeah the way the world perceives extroverts is like yeah they’re always like high energy, like I could be probably be classified as an extrovert, where you know I feel like if the whole day I’m sitting by myself and there are no meetings or if I don’t meet anyone then by the end of the day I’m a little sad

Shilpi: I’m I feel like oh it’s not enough I’m not really happy but when I’m talking to people I’m like this energy excites me and I get energy by connecting with people and that really makes my day

 

Shilpi: like okay if I just had a chat with even my gardener if nothing else, I’ll go out and chat with my gardener, my neighbor or somebody walking on this street and that’ll be like okay something, my day is made I’ll come back energized and I will get on to the next thing, so I kind of understand you know textbook definitions as well as how different people work in different ways and how they get energy from different people, so I just classified myself how do you see each of you like, Kevin also kind of led to that but maybe Susanna and Sam,  how do you see yourself on the spectrum, I know somewhere I read that it’s a big spectrum, and it’s not like you are it’s not black or white, but most people classify themselves as one more than the other, but then there is always a range,  so where do you see yourself on that spectrum?

 

 

 

12:26  Susanna: I think whether it’s on Facebook or you know on Medium or somewhere I put myself as a high functioning introvert that is my official title, I’m sure it’s still there somewhere you know that’s I fall on the high functioning level of introverts but the low functioning is the people who it’s actually the statue itself you know, somewhere in a forest they know another statueoriented statue put somewhere, in a place, like with nobody, like I don’t want anyone around,  but not everyone falls into that neatly into that so what does high functioning introvert mean that’s a new term for me?

13:07 Susanna: High functioning, low functioning means you know high functioning means somebody who is an introvert but will manage to survive in an extrovert’s world

Susanna: you know we’ll come to meetings we’ll show up and we’ll talk and we’ll and be you know engaging will engage in conversations we’ll try out new things, can still do that without damaging themselves mentally and physically but that’s high functioning, but then there are some introverts who if they do that they will be like you know completely burnt out or you know or may even also feel emotionally disturbed at some level, but that is the terminology 

13:53 Shilpi: That is very interesting I always thought that even though somebody is an introvert they have good ideas,  they just don’t like to lead things like they may not feel comfortable leading a meeting or being a public speaker or being in front of people

Shilpi: but they do have great ideas and they collaborate well and they do things, yes they like me time more than others more than extroverts they like me time they like independent work but they still like to work with people so, yeah I mean

14:25  Susanna: No I don’t, I don’t want to be left alone on an Island or anything, yeah that’s why I’m surprised that why do you add the high functioning? Like aren’t most introverts also like

Shilpi: everybody is high functioning in terms of, yes they function well, that is high functioning right? If we don’t function well then we are not even capable of doing it

14:50  Susanna: It’s terminology borrowed from the autism spectrum, in the autism spectrum a low functioning non-verbal, is at the lower end and then high functioning is that people who are on the autism spectrum, but you know you can’t even tell that they are on the autism spectrum, so that’s it that terminology, it is borrowed from that,  that’s why

15:19  Shilpi: So why are we comparing introverts with extroverts?

15:19 Susanna: We are not comparing them,  no it’s just the high functioning low functioning is borrowed from that knowledge 

15:22 Susanna: Very interesting, what about you Sam, where do you see yourself on the spectrum?

15:26  Sam: Yeah I like the idea that Susanna suggested that she’s a high functioning introvert because I think as someone that has always identified myself as being quite confident and outgoing over the years

Sam: I do feel that there is an element of low functioning extroversion or maybe anxious extroversion and I think I’m in that area.  I consider myself an extrovert, I’m quite approachable and confident around new people and, but I do feel like I need time alone to focus and to regroup

Sam: I do get my energy from my students,  I miss the interaction I have during term time and actually during even a work meeting, I do need that contact with other people and I need to have those conversations

Sam: yeah and that interaction and that motivates me and although during Covid I’ve experienced some developments in my own skill set, I think I’ve developed that ability to reflect and to sit back and think about and be more, be more focused on what I, you know, I’m doing, as you know on a daily basis, yeah but naturally, I think I go, I’d go towards the extrovert part, but I’ve learned that moment of reflection and peace is quite important in my life right now, yeah it wasn’t

17:08 Shilpi: True even extroverts need to sit back and reflect on what they are doing they can’t be good leaders if they are always like go all the time

Shilpi: they have to come up with strategy and vision and introspection and make sure that their team is with them understands their vision and how to lead them that takes a lot of thought if you can’t just do it without, Kevin why do you think you are an introvert, I understand the analyze and the overanalyzed part but is there anything you want to add more to it?

17:40 Kevin: I personally think that I’m an introvert because I tend to be very conscious of myself and I can say that about different scenarios like I think ever since I started working from home I’ve realized that even more so in a very in an in a weird way, I would say you know what I wanted to ask you guys this question but I think um this is actually the best time to ask it’s kind of random, but yeah 

18:06 Shilpi: Yeah, we are live!

18:08  Kevin: When you guys speak you know on a video call and then you’re like you’re in the zone you have a really good, you know train of thought and you’re talking for like a good minute or two, do you and you look at the camera or you look towards the screen do you look at yourself or do you look at the other videos, like the other people, which one do you do more of do you feel because I person let me start, first I personally feel like I spend eighty percent of my time actually is the center of my focus on myself which is a bit weird and I don’t mean this because I’m vain in any way I definitely don’t like looking at myself in the mirror but for some reason, I’m focusing my attention on my own video versus everyone else’s

Kevin: I don’t know why I just find myself very conscious of the way I’m talking, the way my head is positioned or things like that like I’m looking out for those things versus looking at you know all the other wonderful faces on the screen, what are your thoughts on how you feel, find yourself speaking and looking?

19:11  Shilpi: I mean that is a very interesting observation Kevin and um I’m sure I’ll let others speak, I think that just like you said right like it we have been taught like a good orator is somebody who makes eye contact a good orator a good leader or whoever is standing in front of a group of people to be able to connect with their audience you need to make eye contact with as many people as possible if you lock your eye contact with just one person and you only make them feel like you’re doing this whole talk to them than others feel like left out neglected and that’s not a not the best way to deliver a message right

Shilpi: and in live scenarios, I would say that yeah so making eye contact with as many people as possible in the room is the best and so that’s what I try to do when I am on a video call I try to look at everybody else on the video call like more than myself but yes I will look at myself to make sure that you know I’m still in the frame and being okay but I will try to look at and also reading the room right

Shilpi: so basically trying to understand what people, are they bored are they interested? Should I stop here and go to the next or you know basically reading between the lines all those body language?

Shilpi: so I try to do that in person as well as in a video call as much, even though an only a very small portion of the body is visible 

20:51 Kevin: An interesting point because, if you think about it on a video call you’re never making eye contact ever, it’s impossible like right now I’m looking at you but it doesn’t look like it and right now I’m looking at me and it looks the exact same right true that is a truly interesting time 

21:07 Shilpi: Yeah so probably others will not know that you are looking at me or you’re looking at yourself a good point, but yeah I mean I do, that because I want to see whether you guys are enjoying this conversation or not, or you’re bored and maybe I should keep quiet 

21:27 Susanna: Actually, that’s actually good you know I don’t know examples of you know what an introvert an extrovert means because the reason why introverts when we give a public speaking engagement or something,  we like to focus on one area just lock eyes or somebody in the front and that’s where we keep our eyes on and we think the rest of the audience won’t notice that is then

Susanna: they say you know actually keep your eyes on the horizon fix on a point on the horizon so that you know it looks like you are looking at everybody those are all tricks we use as an introvert to not feel anxious when talking.

22:04 Susanna: When zoom came along we started looking at ourselves more instead of looking at the other people and actually there was a study that was done that actually found out that introverts were more emotionally drained because of looking at themselves because this is called the mirror effect like you are actually somebody is holding a mirror to your face, this never happens in real life we don’t walk around with the mirror to our face you know looking at ourselves when we talk but our brain, when it is processing that, is you know taxing us more than the extroverts because extroverts don’t bother looking at themselves they want to look at other people and they get their energy from everyone else so they tend to look at other people, so the zoom meetings don’t drain them out as much as it drains out introverts that’s something new today 

22:54 Sam: Yeah I know you mean, yeah I don’t tend to focus as much on my zoom video but if I need to focus that helps me, it helps me read again, refocus on what I’m doing, so yeah definitely 

23:10 Susanna: There’s a now a hide your view without you know turning off your camera you can hide your view on you so when you do that you don’t spend time looking at yourself which should help you actually but I don’t think it may not help introverts anyway because we are going to be drained out anyway without any 

23:30 Susanna: And if you are thinking about how I look or you want to see yourself then hiding from that probably won’t be effective

23:35 Shilpi: Right yeah this is fascinating, very interesting and I also struggle, with so I personally I feel I have never had this conversation openly about being an extrovert or an introvert with other people, even my friends or colleagues, so this is very interesting to me and sometimes I feel like I may think that I’m an extrovert but I have my low point, I shouldn’t say low points but difficult challenges as an extrovert as well. When I go to very large networking meetings, where I don’t know anybody when I do where I don’t walk in with a friend or I’m nobody I know I do feel a little lost like, yes the best strategy, like you know in the book in the playbook is to you just you can join any group and don’t worry about speaking out, just listen and the more you listen and yes I know all the rules like okay networking you don’t, you don’t want to talk about yourself or sell something you know, you want to connect with people and then let them be such an interesting person that they should ask you, like what do you do and you know that give me a business card, that’s like the networking 101, like don’t just go and talk, people don’t like people who talk about themselves so I know all that and that’s why I feel like okay if I’m not going to talk about myself and I’m not going to sell anything and I don’t know anybody and I can’t crack a joke because I don’t even know what’s going on and I just you know, what do you do like where do you put your hands and what do you do and when which group do you go and join and so that sometimes is a challenge, does that happen to any of you?

25:31  Susanna: All the time 

25:31 Sam: Yeah I think so, yeah I am if I may,  I’ve been in a situation before where I’ve been thinking which group do I speak to, who’s that who should I start having the conversation with you know, do I just listen, observe as you said, Shilpi, I think it’s really important to do that and then maybe then start the conversation after, but introducing yourself can be challenging, breaking the ice, it’s very, it is quite difficult yeah and even in big groups

Sam: I think in a smaller group in a convivial environment it’s quite nice to be able to meet new people but I think in a large group where you have maybe 60 guests yes it can be difficult for me yeah definitely, I move around and make my way but it takes time 

28:22 Shilpi: So, do you think that one personality versus the other has an edge in the workplace especially in the work environment towards getting better growth opportunities better positions, rising the corporate ladder is there a difference to like better team positions, getting customer-facing roles will come to roles later but like just in terms of opportunities

Shilpi: do you feel the world favors one type of personality or does the corporate environment favor one versus the other? Ah we can whoever want to jump in can go first 

29:07 Susanna: I definitely think it favors the extroverts those who are on the extrovert spectrum, score higher on that they are favored by the world in general by you know corporate promotions and you know leadership roles because automatically they speak up in meetings they lead meetings, they are more engaged they are able to connect with different people, network better you know even if the if everybody has an idea before an introvert even starts to speak, you know that how extrovert will be the one that will jump up and say that idea better or worse the person who first says it is always seen as the one that has come up with it, sometimes even in group presentations the introverts would be very happy to give the presentation opportunity to the extrovert in the room and when you present whatever the project when the entire team all our names would be on it but still

Susanna: the person who presented it would be seen as the one who led the whole thing

26:21  Susanna: Yeah it happens to me you know even in virtual conferences now when in 2020 all the virtual, all the conferences moved to virtual and they had all these new well you can be on the avatar and you can walk around initially when it first came around when I went to one of those conferences first, I did not know that the people who walk towards you they can actually you know to contact you and talk to you and then people were just like Susanna and they started talking

I got really freaked out who are you, how do you know my name? Is moving towards the booths and the walls and I thought okay that’s the safest place there are like you know bush you know images and icons there and then let’s say there was like if it says Ethics 1st LinkedIn live talks, there’s like a board or something even though it’s the only three words, I would stand there forever and as if I am reading the board, and then I left you to know I said you know, I’m going to park myself in near the bush and just you know so that people cannot make contact with me a lot, so at least two-three or four people started joining me near the bush!

27:45  Shilpi: They started talking to you again, they stood near the bush facing the walls,  I knew they were interested oh wow this is fascinating, okay so! 

27:55 Kevin:  I think we should we should identify the difference between an introvert and a creep in this case [Laughter] there is a difference, it’s not the same

28:03 Shilpi: Of course I mean you’re talking about like somebody who’s following you and like that’s a creep versus just moving away and keeping to yourself 

28:16 Kevin: There are similarities but it’s not the same 

33:26  Kevin: Right I think I think a good example if I’m remembering correctly is Mark Zuckerberg, but correct me if I’m wrong I believe I read somewhere that he’s an introvert yes he is, how weird and awkward was that video?  But he’s clearly trying and kudos to him for trying as an introvert you know yeah he’s trying to make eye contact, make it feel and look natural and clear,

Kevin: you could see that it was not that natural for him to speak that much and you know to articulate and that kind of thing, yes I think definitely resonates with him and I can totally understand where he’s coming from

Kevin: but yeah to Susanna’s point you have to kind of do it, certain points in your life and you know that you have to accept it, I think it’s all about moderation so for introverts just to Susana’s point we can’t do it as much as extroverts can but definitely, we it’s okay for us,  it’s just it boils down to energy capacity and things like that right so maybe a question for the audience is you know 

Kevin: What are the ways we can still as introverts, you know stand head to head or toe to toe with extroverts in terms of public speaking?

Kevin: because now with us you know being more technology-driven there are ways for us to like pre-record presentations and like that’s one idea right you don’t have to be in front of an audience live true and that’s probably what mark Zuckerberg also did, I don’t think even though it was streamed live we don’t know for sure if it actually was live,  and there’s a good chance it probably wasn’t so like things like that are ideas we can consider and explore further to help introverts in the realm of public speaking

35:19  Shilpi: That is a good point another thing I’m sorry Susanna did you want to add something to it?

35:25 Susanna:  I think you know he is right because in an emotionally safe space you guys are all now publicly speaking on this podium now and it’s reaching millions of people so you know technically we are, we are able to do that whether we are introvert or extrovert when we are around surrounded by friends so in a corporate world 

35:47 Susanna: I think that’s what we should aim for 

35:48 Sam: Yeah that’s great 

35: 49 Shilpi: That’s a very good point so basically, it’s I think we have all established the fact and we all agree to it that public speaking helps us helps anybody who is able to do it and yes at times extroverts also have to step outside their comfort zone

Shilpi: I remember when it when I started a podcast uh several years ago I had never even listened to one and I was not a podcast listener at all and I all of a sudden out of the blue that that’s what I do that’s how I am

Shilpi: I decided to Susanna she laughs at it because she knows that’s what I do all of a sudden,  I’ll be let’s do a hackathon, I’ve never attended one I’ve never entered anyone let’s do a hackathon because I feel like it no we should do one so that’s what we do then we then I go back and do all the research so then I did that but it was stepping out of my comfort zone

Shilpi: the point I was trying to make is, yes there are things and we know because doing this will help us, that’s why we take the extra effort to go that extra mile and that’s what I think, what you were all trying to say is, like even though, if somebody is an introvert because they know those opportunities are going to help them because otherwise how will others know that you did this work, or you have ideas and you need to be able to communicate and present to the senior leadership that this is you this is your idea, this is what you want to do, this is how you want to change or start in a new initiative

Shilpi: so yes if that means stepping outside the comfort zone and finding ways maybe pre-recorded as Kevin said is one,  from the leadership side

Shilpi: I think maybe we should encourage all personality types to be able to feel comfortable, to be able to share their views freely without being judged

Shilpi: Sometimes like if it’s not their native language it’s not their first language then also they may not feel very comfortable in speaking up publicly or in a team setting and so those I think as a team lead as a senior leader in an organization we need to constantly be aware of the different, different diversity and personality types in our team and encourage people who are not usually very open to coming up like speaking up on their ideas but definitely make sure that they feel heard and they feel that they’re valued and their opinion matters, all right 

38:39 Shilpi: So today is national STEAM and STEM day and DataEthics4All now, DataEthics4All foundation and we just started our new STEAM in AI program initiative, so who wants to tell a little bit more about that we’ll just give a little teaser and that will be the conversational topic for next week,  so we’ll just give our audience a little teaser on what steam in AI is

39:10 Susanna:   My own personal definition of steam in AI is somebody asked me recently are you a woman in STEM,  I mean after all the women in tech, women in AI, they are now horrible women in stem, and I was like you know no I am not a woman in STEM, 

Susanna:  I would rather prefer to be called a woman in STEAM because without arts and without sociology, I don’t see myself in in the realm of science because to me both of them are integrated together

Susanna: so that’s so I would like to announce myself today on this platform as a woman in STEAM,  that you already are women and even Kevin is a supporter of even though man, a man but a big supporter of steam in AI because, yeah he is part of this initiative yeah so, Sam and Kevin what would you like to say about our new steam and AI initiative ?

40:10 Sam: Yeah I think we could, following on what Susanna said,  it’s actually encompassing our FREE STEM tutoring initiative, which is looking at not just the traditional stem subjects but bringing in sociology and the arts and social sciences and celebrating those and the humanities and how important they are and for you know for our younger generation for us going forward and for our Ethics 1st leaders, yeah and I mean our initiative is really to try and encourage young people to look at both parts of that spectrum if you like and work in, work potentially across all disciplines you know whether it’s in a team or as in a role I think yeah, I think that’s what I would say and there’s a couple of key additional yeah subjects we’ve got, the arts and engineering in there as well yeah and mentoring, yeah outside of STEM, yeah that’s what I would say

41:13  Kevin: I think arts is very important and it’s what brings the human aspect to technology because so far like within STEM there’s no I mean I would say that there’s no human element to it,  it’s very science-y, very technology stem but

Kevin: thanks to arts now we’re also engaging advertising in my opinion because… you can apply you know the whole human aspect the most

Kevin: I think ever since we went from studying behavior to influencing and changing behavior over the past decade, arts is very important you know, like to Susana’s point sociology is an important concept to understand and to apply within stem so 

41:59 Shilpi: Absolutely yes and that’s why besides the traditional STEAM, which everybody knows is for science,  technology engineering mathematics arts, and mathematics we have added our own version of steam just like our DIET our AI Diet we can’t stay away from the double, but we also wanted to bring the linear as well as non-linear careers to STEM that lead to AI now because there’s just so much that can lead to AI careers and it doesn’t have to be a linear STEM or STEAM path, that will get you there

We’ll talk more about what are the non-linear stem careers and things that we have added to our definition of steam in AI, more on that next week stay tuned!

Thanks, everyone for joining us, and thank you, Sam, Susanna, Kevin, very interesting conversation,  I learned a thing or two new today I hope our audience did as well and I hope our part of you guys also learned something, and let’s continue the conversation, in the comments please let us know what did you think about our discussion and what are your thoughts on all of this that we discussed today how introverts and extroverts, growth opportunities for them are different in the workplace and how we can improve opportunities of growth for introverts especially because it feels to me like extroverts are going to find their own way and they find opportunities for themselves but introverts need some help so let’s see how and what we can do to help them, thanks everyone take care bye-bye!